Of course were all here to make friends and get along, but I see people here have a hard time seeing a different point of view. All I said that I don't like receiving extras with my ATC and that I would be reluctant to accept candies from a stranger. All of a suddent you all started freaking out.

I must say that your posts do have a condescending tone. Maybe that was not your intention, but you shouldn't be surprised that people do not agree with you. You have the same chance of being poisoned by food from your grocery store as you do from candy that a fellow swapper sent you (very little).

"Some sick people tried to poison little babies in China with the formula"

Well, no - some greedy selfish people tried to cut corners and make more profit and didn't care about possible consequences. That is criminal negligence, but they didn't try to kill babies, and it's unlikely they realised how sick it would make them as it is never a good business decision to poison your customers. Many much more reliable food companies have to recall products at times because of contamination, again usually unintentional failure of quality control, so no food you have not grown and processed yourself can can be regarded as totally safe, and not even that food, really.

However none of that has any similarity to the suggestion that SB members would knowingly or intentionally send poisoned candy to children in swaps or as RAKs.

" All of a suddent you all started freaking out."

Stating our disagreement with you is not "freaking out".

I myself, don't consider what I send as "junk"~whether its the actual swap item OR the extras I love to send. I spend alot of time working on the actual swap item.

I also spend ALOT of money on craft supplies in a month and I send extras in swaps that I myself would use. For example: in a recent fabric charm squares swap-I sent "extras" that I had bought at a quilt store for $19.00 a yard-I really don't consider that "junk"! But if I have something extra-and I read on someone's profile that they like a certain item-then hey, why not share what I have!
I also do NOT send extras to get a heart, a pat on the back, or anything else. I do it because I "want" to.

That being said, I also respect others wishes and if they post on their profile they really don't need the extras-then that's fine too. I know one lady stated she just really doesn't have the space for extras-and that's fine.

Maybe just a nice-"Please don't send extras with your swap" will eliminate your headache?!?

BTW-Awesome ATCs Gypsy!! ;}

Gypsy ~ your ATC's are awesome ~ very creative and artistic!!

The artwork here is absolutely beautiful I understand that not all are skilled like you are. I would have been thrilled to received something like that but my point is that some people don't put the effort and like I said again ATC = artist trading card not not something that a 2 year old can do.

It all comes down to two things: putting some imagination and effort into the items you create for your swaps, and putting some thought into anything extra that you might send. No one wants to get a swap that took someone 5 minutes to make. As much as we would like Swat-bot to be perfect, there are some swappers who do as little as possible, and most likely happily receive all the beautiful swaps others have poured themselves into making. It's a lot like life: not always fair and sometimes cruel.

Being a newbie, I am certain that eventually I'll be able to identify the kinds of swaps that the "serious creativity junkies" (Will that be a new Group??) are into, and those will be the ones I join. Until then I'm just going to try everything and try to learn from it all.

Is there any way we can see some of your work DesighnerFreak as I see you don't have a flickr link ? ( Not wanting to get into who can or can't afford digital cameras etc, just that it is always helpful to see what others make and some groups require proof of your abilities) :D

Whisper first I'm not here to prove anything. Actually you might not like what I make but that's not the point here. My point is it seems that I have to repeat myself is people should put the effort into making their ATC - 2 minutes making one does not cut it for me. Where here to have fun and to exchange them. And no its not about rating talent as you would like to do.

I'm really aware that it's often the case that people wouldn't want to eat the chocolate i send. I send a tiny piece of wrapped chocolate with every swap, but at the end of the day if someone decided not to eat it, that's ok with me. Safety first.

I like looking at ATC's and would probably like to have a few, but i know i'm not creative enough to make them, so i haven't ever participated in a swap. :) I do get the point though, As an international shipper, if something costs more to post than to make, and i recieve something shoddily made in return, i would be really dissapointed. I haven't ever had this happen, but my flatmate has. It is a shame.

Where is a location. Example where are my reading glasses I can't wait to read the next chapter in my etiquette book.

We're is a contraction for the two words "we are"

My gripe is spelling but do I ever say anything about it?

Linda, can you write in French? I would be more than happy to help you with your spelling as well. Thank you for pointing out the error - I learned something today. That is enough for this forum - I think i'm wasting my time with people that belong to the golden age club.

LOL @Linda50 my gripe is spelling but do I ever say anything about it?

Actually you just did, sort of. I bet your gripe is really misspelled words; spelling is pretty essential.

@DesignerFreak - If you don't like the extra's, just send them one to someone else.

LOL Linda :) As an English teacher it takes all my restraint not to yell WERE not WHERE when on the forums :)

What exactly is the golden age club?

Designerfreak if it's not "about rating talent" why are you complaining? You must consider that not everyone here is a designer nor an artist. Also consider that art is subjective; what you may think is junk someone else may love. This site is about swapping for fun, not for criticising others for being kind or about their art work. Think about how your partners might feel if they read your unkind, dare I say nasty comments, about their cards and the extras they wanted to share with you. As you are a newbie I will put it down to your lack of understanding of how this site works. I suggest that if you want to continue swapping here and have people actually want to swap with you learn to have a little empathy. Also post some pics of your own art work beore you complain about others.

Oooh, am I a member of a club of which I have never even heard? But, if I don't know the club rules, I might get thrown out again. :-(

As has been said, there are easy solutions. If you don't want to run the risk of receiving stuff that isn't up to your standards (generic "you", not specifically designerfreak, and not only for ATCs), don't join swaps or groups unless they have suitable requirements, but bear in mind that in such discerning company, you may not meet your partner's high standards. If you don't want 'extras', say so on your profile, but if you get them anyway then throw them away or pass them on to another partner. Ditto if you don't want to receive food items, or scented items, or smoky items, or any other type of item.

Many people here have BOLDLY placed on their profile that they do not want to receive random extras in swaps. They may list specific items they do not want to receive or list only items that they would love to receive.

Part of the Artist Trading Card movement is that participation is not limited just to professional artists. In fact, most of these cards are created by amateur artists. I agree that some effort should go into each piece, but each artist has to start somewhere. By sharing our best art we are inspiring and encouraging one another. Not every card is going to be a masterpiece -- if the world was filled with great artists then no one would truly stand out, right?

Swapping for ATCs without seeing what other artists do will probably be a challenge for you at any on-line site. I really suggest you try swapping at Flickr or ATCsforall.com -- these are a couple sites where you can see what cards look like before you trade.

And you should realize many people who swap here also swap at those other sites too. I'm not sure whether you are active in other on-line groups but it's going to be hard to build good swapping relations when posting judgemental comments or name-calling. If you develop a reputation for making prickly comments be forewarned that can follow you elsewhere...so really being thoughtful in comments that are posted is important.

In DF's defense, I can say that I have also received cards with little to no thought put into them, sent with seemingly compensatory scraps. (Although I have also received cards that were absolutely stunning and came with papers and scraps that were really fantastic). I think that there is an obvious difference between people who are honestly trying to do well but maybe just aren't our style, and people who truly don't care how their work looks as long as they get things and do the bare minimum to receive a 5. I could give an example, but I'll refrain.

That being said, someone on here pointed out that all this is quite like life - some people work their asses off to receive little in return, while others skate by hardly working for what they get. I'm fortunate that most of my swaps have gone extremely well, and I feel like nearly every one I've gotten has been really worked on with care. I know that every one that I've done has been work I'm proud of... and that alone is a fabulous reward for me.

Gypsy- you should definitely host a Monday's Child swap and do each day over a period of time. Those are adorable!!!!

As far as the extras, I rate only on the actual swap item, but I say thank you for any extras. I object to a host asking for extras for a heart. If I didn't want any extras, I would put that on my profile.

I am fortunate, I have always received wonderful and thoughtful swap items. I'm sure the day will come that I don't. I hope I will be gracious with my words when that happens. I plan to contact the sender privately and ask if they could do a little better before rating. I also might use the ATC as a base for a new card and send an email with a picture of it and a pleasant note to show what might have been accomplished.

Oh, that's another idea! Send a partially completed card to someone who will finish it and email a photo to the original sender. Or they could even send the card back to the original maker!! Does anyone want to host something like that? Let me know-

This thread has been quite entertaining. I can take extras or leave them. I don't mind them at all but do not get upset when my partner does not include them. I just really enjoy the sharing here on swapbot. I enjoy the true love I feel when I open a swap. It just gives me a warm feeling all over.

"I also might use the ATC as a base for a new card and send an email with a picture of it and a pleasant note to show what might have been accomplished."

I'm sorry but if it was a newbie who had sent you this card and tried her hardest but it wasn't up to your par...I would be sorely hurt at that act.

Or if it was a card you just didn't like, although someone else may love, again you might deeply hurt that person for doing it.

To me, that's like taking off the back label and claiming the ATC as your own.

I'm with weeatcrayons, if someone re-did one of my ATC's I would be upset.

ATC's are not supposed to be rated on artistic talent. You can not rate down because you receive something you feel is below par unless it is clearly stated in the swap instructions. So suggesting someone redo it before rating would be inappropriate most of the time.

I understand both points of views. If somebody is gonna make a crappy atc then throw in some extras that is bs. At the same time i dont see anything wrong with extras. I love getting any extras because they add an element of surpise to my collection of paper and I get new stuff without having to buy anything. But yes, i have got some atc's that are very crappy and was pretty disapointed.

I worked hard on making some ATC's (3 for each partner) and did my best job i could. The person i sent them to said she looked for the extras in the envelope but gave me a heart anyway as she liked them. I can just picture her shaking the envelope looking for the extras lol. I would advise those serious ATC ers to join the groups etc as a lot of people in the public swaps are just starting out and are learning. When i first started i did not know what on earth i was doing.

I'm a member of a site where it's for more "advanced" ATC'ers... and well, I have actually come to love this site a little more in that time frame. Why? Because of the diversity I get. The occasional receiving of a card that was a FIRST for someone, makes me feel good. You've never been excited to receive someones FIRST ever piece of art? I sure do.

I do understand though, how saddening it is to receive a piece of art that has only a sticker on it, when you spent hours on yours. But, I don't throw them away or call them "good for garbage" :-/ I take it as a lesson learned, and move on.

As for the extras. I feel that whatever they send, can be used somehow. And if you absolutely cannot, why not pass it to someone who can? Or, if it bothers you that much, why not mention it in your profile (as others have mentioned)

I also wanted to show some Art I have made using recycling:

(This is an old CD I decorated)

And here are some ATC's I made with "Extras" i've gotten, or Recycled bits.

So pretty Angela